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tool of the creators

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  • #44194
    Armadon
    Participant

    During the new state of the empire all I kept hearing was the speculators defending ideas and view points that there is no published backing for. “is Luke original home so far out that he wouldn’t hear a lot about Jedi or the rebels” and so on.
    that made me realize that ever since there was lore of any kind there has been people speculating on the reasons and meanings of it by people like us.

    that being said are we just the the tools creators use to fill in the gaps that the creators dont want to waste the time making up?

    #44196
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    An easy way to view this is the Lightning Dogs. The guys are trying very hard to not use fan ideas but they are addressing the holes that fans find early on.

    The best analogy I have is a test pilot, without their feedback the designers can’t make the needed improvements.

    Star Wars, I think, had been around so long and had had such an influence, that fans basically grew up and made their stories cannon before the Disney purge.

    #44197
    Armadon
    Participant

    True but what gets me is that beyond star wars. Movies, comics, games that have plot holes, take the Mummy, Imotep kills the pharaoh and is put under the curse that if woken up he is immensely powerful. Who the hell wrote up that curse and of course no wrote up a reason so critics and fans made up a reason. For reasons like this and others I wonder are we just the test rats.

    Are we more entertained by the product or the talks after the fact.

    Lost was often more fun guessing the story than watching it.

    #44207
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The second season of Walking Dead was more fun talking about than watching. I was up to date till mid 3rd season, talking each week about the show during lunch. But as soon as I fell off track (pregnant wife was having nightmares of zombie babies), I couldn’t talk about the show anymore, and I lost interest. I recently tried to finish season 3 and couldn’t.

    But to the defense of this style show, that’s the fun. It’s basically an mmo with horrible single player but great as a group.

    I tried to start the “anime of the week” group to simulate this feel between TWD seasons.

    #44228
    Max
    Participant

    This phenomenon is innate to the human experience. Your brain is going to fill in missing details naturally, because pattern recognition is hardwired into it. It is used to purposeful effect by good artists in any number of media (don’t show the monster, it’ll be scarier; don’t strip all the way down, it’ll be sexier; don’t give a ton of backstory, it’ll be more interesting) because they know that your brain is going to inherently fill in what YOU think is the most effective thing. Bad artists do this too, by accident or laziness, so in that sense you may be on to something. But in answer to your question, yes, it is a time-honored technique to give “just enough” to your audience. The magic happens when you know how much “enough” is.

    #44230
    Armadon
    Participant

    That’s a very true statement @max. But what about the real fact that more often than not the creators never fill in those gaps leaving them forever unanswered. And I am not referring to things like David Bowie’s Outside album, but the simple things like “Was the force truly believed to be superstitious tricks and nonsense after episode 3, or was it just kept to the more educated and embroiled in the dealings of the galaxy”
    I don’t down play acts of interpretation, art doesn’t need to be explained just enjoyed. But when stories are created and little details are left out intentionally or lazily just so they can leave it up the audience to figure it out, what does that really make us?

    #44231
    Max
    Participant

    An engaged audience? I guess I’m not sure I follow what kind of answer you’re looking for.

    #44232
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I think we need to find 4 examples of this phenomena.

    1&2 films where the plot/story etc is fully explained but one fails to develop a following and the other is a success.
    3&4 is the same but they leave things for the viewers to decide

    Afterwards we can compare the four on their effectiveness in making us resemble rodents abd our overall happiness about that.

    #44278
    ChairFan
    Participant

    Personally I’m kind of annoyed by a movie that ends with a “you decide what you think happened” sort of deal. It always makes the group discuss it, but I wish they’d just choose a specific ending instead of leaving things ambiguous. As far as during the length of the movie I think a little vagueness or mystery works really well, especially in fantasy movies, but in Sci/Fi stuff I always wish they explained more about their technologies(space ships, weapons, teleporters and stuff). It’s hard to cram all the world building stuff into a movie that needs world building.

    #44284
    Armadon
    Participant

    I have been trying to think of what @anduin posted.

    Film that doesn’t explain but worked was Fifth Element. A film that explained and worked 12 monkies

    #44286
    Garayur
    Participant

    Anything that is made is going to be a collaborative experience, whether the artist intends it to be or not. We are each going to interpret everything in our own particular way. A lot of time intentions don’t quite translate the same way to the audience. Good bad movies are a great example of this. The intentions are so misinterpreted that what might be intended to be a serious film becomes hilarious to the audience. No matter what the movie is there are always going to be small unanswered questions and part of the fan experience is answering them in our own way. What might start as a small continuity error spawns a horde of fannon. Just look at the MLP community for this. It is chalk full of stories written in the gaps. What you are noticing is us creating our own understanding of the story.

    One of the classic pieces of advice is leave your audience wanting more. In theory someone could step down and lay out all of the details for star wars or anything else but that would limit the space fans have to speculate and tell their own stories. We would lose the sense of ownership. The best stories tell you just enough and let your imagination fill in the rest. When they leave those gaps it leaves us engaged and room to interpret and create our own stories. We aren’t tools so much as collaborators.

    Games tend to do this more explicitly. That is why choices are often so valued in games. They are a formal way of contributing to the story. It is less a story being told to you and more a story you are helping to tell. Tabletop is on the more extreme side of the spectrum where everyone is actively contributing to the telling of the story.

    Steam: Garayur
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    #44310
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @garayur, I think we each agree with what you are saying, and it answers @armadon’s question. But now I think the conversation has progressed.

    I have two points I think we can explore.

    1) About my last post. What is the difference between films that evokes our curiosity and grows by the community, and ones that don’t?
    2) Are their any examples where the creators used the fans as tools. I.e. the creators use the fan ideas and made a profit off of them.

    About 1, bad movie with info “Sphere” and one that had little info and failed “Waterworld”

    #44317
    Max
    Participant

    X-Files allegedly used to use quite a bit of the fan ideas from the early message boards. They went so far as to have the Lone Gunman mention specific posters and name informants after them. Also Cancer Man is what the fans were calling Cigarette Smoking Man on the boards before he’d been named on the show as such.

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