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The State of the Server

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This topic contains 96 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Galdap Jr. (mopkins) 7 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #30014

    Raven
    Member

    Combining Nether portals within rail stations sounds like the best course of action, though the old portal network will still need a thorough clean up before hand.

    All the fun parts of life are optional.

    #30020

    Arkais
    Moderator

    Nether portals might not work, they tend to go random locations.

    "You'd be surprised how many calories hedonism burns."

    #30031

    Raven
    Member

    Which is why we’ll demolish the randomly, wrongly placed Nether side ones and realign them correctly.

    All the fun parts of life are optional.

    #30034

    lingarn
    Participant

    Wow, there are a lot of interesting proposals in this thread.

    Here are my thoughts.

    1) Regarding a server reset — I am ambivalent. After the last server reset, I thought I’d never love again. But seriously, it makes me sad to lose all of the cool things people have built. On the other hand, I am not completely against it because I also remember having a lot of fun setting out into the wilderness all over again on this server. I can only imagine doing so while having the powers I have now would be even better. The ability to organize things centrally is also appealing, although the idea of easy access to my builds currently makes me nervous.

    2) Moving spawn — much as I love New Spawnville and the associated territories, I recognize that some people are having trouble. People were saying months ago that spawn was getting too crowded, and construction hasn’t actually stopped since then. A while ago WageWor suggested a contest to build your ideal Spawn area in a 100×100 or 200×200 space — I think that this could be a fun way to generate alternate spawn sites. If something is already in the works, that is great too. Regardless, I think that moving spawn is a practical, if short-term decision. In the end, this wouldn’t really solve any of the problems we are discussing, only punt them down the line.

    3) Using a mod to make creepers not grief things above ground — 100% behind this.

    4) Using a mod to “claim” property, and limit what people can do — I also enthusiastically support this idea. I have built most of my recent builds a few thousand blocks away from Spawn partly so that I can build in peace, but also partly because griefers are a real and legitimate concern. I would be much more open to a more limited server area with greater connectivity if we could actually own property.

    5) Limiting the server area — I see the value of this idea, but I am not happy with the proposed limitations. I think a 10k x 10k area would be better. I am not building out past 6-8k, and even after the server has been up for so long there is plenty of space out there for my ridiculous projects. 10k x 10k gives enough room for giant projects and a decent sized nether while still smushing people in more than currently happens. I imagine this is only relevant if the server is reset, which probably isn’t happening, but if it did I think that starting with 10k x 10k would be the way to go.

    6) Growing/building the community — it seems like this is an underlying issue in a lot of the conversation. We don’t have a lot of people on a lot of the time, and the people who are on tend to be spread out. To be honest, I’m not sure that there is much way around this. For one thing, the server can only handle 8 people at a time. For another, a lot of people have powers, and seem content to build their own little kingdoms where they won’t be disturbed. This isn’t a bad thing, because when people get too gung-ho about building together, we get the New Spawnville problem. Essentially, I’m not sure how much togetherness the server can take.

    7) Greater Ops involvement. More or more frequent, seems like a good idea.

    tl;dr — I vote for grief-less creepers, property ownership, and moving spawn. If we can get the first two, I support the idea of a unified transit system; otherwise, I like my privacy. I see the benefit of a server reset, but like the world we have now.

    Thanks for posting this topic. I think that it is good to discuss this.

    Lingarn

    #30037

    Anonymous

    I’ve been asked to provide input, but I’m lazy so I’ll chime in along the lines of what lingarn said.

    1) server reset — I’m indifferent. I like our server, but wouldn’t mind exploring something new with the builders.

    2) Moving spawn — could work, why not put spawn at an extremely high altitude, made of bedrock, and force people to journey long distances until they can build. Bore the griefers before they can grief.

    3) Using a mod to make creepers not grief things above ground — sure.

    4) Using a mod to “claim” property, and limit what people can do — not that interested

    5) Limiting the server area — if there was a reset, this wouldn’t be a bad idea. we should learn to be more loving and close to each other.

    6) Growing/building the community — can’t force this, moot point

    7) Greater Ops involvement. if they can, moot point

    #30042

    Cap
    Keymaster

    Hey everyone – sorry for the slow response. @jon and I have been actively following this thread and had a lengthy conversation tonight weighing options. @flawedspirit – thanks for going ahead and making this a public conversation. Judging by the range of reactions, this is ultimately a conversation that needed to happen.

    When we initially restarted the SoA it was because Minecraft had officially launched. It was a really regrettable thing and I think restarting this server would be equally regrettable. However, this server belongs to the community. I’m not going to let my sentimentality get in the way of progress. You guys’ opinions matter, so keep ’em coming and we’ll figure this out together. There was a lot discussed, so if I’ve missed something, please remind me.

    First, a question: has anyone ever played on a long-running prestigious Minecraft server. Maybe one of the invite-only or pay-to-pay ones? I don’t know how they run, and I’m curious. Certainly they’ve had to have had these conversations before and it would be good to learn from their experiences. They can’t possibly start fresh every time a new feature is implemented. Maybe there’s an obvious solution we’re missing.

    Whether or not to restart the server: Working on a blank slate with a set of common goals is very appealing. But the cost is high. I won’t be answering with a yes or no just yet. Read on as I address some issues.

    Server size: While it would be cool to map the server, I don’t think having a server so large it’s unmappable is a bad thing. It sucks because a map would be really helpful to figure things out, but it’s not a necessity. Ideally we’d have one server that would grow forever. Creating something epic with longevity, I feel is the dream of a server like we have. We can keep upgrading to meet up with the load. Irresponsible growth is no good though. A cap on server size (that could be amended) is a wise idea and if we restarted it’s definitely something Jon and I would go for. Simply, we can’t trust that everyone will have the good judgement not to wander out into forever. The space should be more wisely used.

    Creepers not injuring builds: You guys want it? You’ve got it. I personally like living with that natural, intended risk. But the community play style generally revolves around builds, so this makes sense. We’ll add it in.

    Residence: It’s my understanding that this wouldn’t stop players from sharing build interactivity with others, provided that they’re allowed. In the long run I worry that it could harm the world building organically around other structures and developing in years to come on the current server, and that it could create too inorganic a layout on a new server. However, using it is optional, so it ain’t all bad. It’s something we’d consider as a feature for Trades. I’d like to hear more arguments against it so I can understand where everyone is coming from on it, but it seems reasonable.

    Spawn: We’ve discussed moving it again in the past. So if the consensus is that it’s a problem, let’s move it. We’ve seen that spawn inevitably becomes a kind of nerdy Las Vegas. It’s happened every time. I like it – A nerdsplosion for anyone who enters, and personally I’ve never experienced lag as a result. That said, new players need to have an understanding of what’s up and it is truly a clusterfuck. If we stay on the current SoA, we’ll be moving it soon. I really like the having it on a bedrock mountain idea.

    Warps: I 100% agree the warp list is absurd. It’s not what I intended at all. Let me share a vision with you guys that maybe you’ll be into: Warps are ancient teleportation places. They’re regional, specially selected, and all linked to their own communities. People flock to warps, builders, Shopkeeps, etc and they act as cultural hubs. I’d like to completely wipe the warp list and take recommendations for well-spaced regional locations on the current server. (We’d probably keep some current ones, but we’ll see). If we’re starting over then we’d just adopt this stance.

    Rails: I’d love to see a better functioning global rail system, and yes I agree that above ground is the way to go.

    Quartz: See possible solution.

    Porting over old builds: In the event of a new server it’s something we’d consider. Obviously it has A LOT of limitations and requires some time. Not something we’d like to make a point of doing regularly and would be easy for people to feel left out. Even everybody gets one request would be too much. So: maybe, but would need to be very restricted.

    OPs: This was something that took us by surprise. Personally I’m bummed that myself and others can’t spend time on the SoA like we used to, but I didn’t know that the server was affected by this. What exactly is it that you guys are looking for from OPs? Currently, there’s no core functions an OP offers that aren’t available in some form via the Trade system. There’s a legion of capable Lawmen, we’ve got a fair amount of Shopkeeps, and Architects lend a hand when they can – so what’s missing that requires an OP? It was our impression that the Trade system made things more or less self-sustaining. Anything else that an OP can do that others can is really specialized, not every day stuff.

    The 8 user thing: very annoying problem, something to do with the settings after the recent server crisis. Jon is trying to figure out what caused it. Ideally we’d be at 15 or 20.

    POSSIBLE SOLUTION:

    We’ve all got a lot invested in the server, and though much of the community isn’t outright opposed to the idea of restating, there’s a lot that would be lost. (Supporting download of the current server is WAY less feasible than with SoA1).

    We can’t rely on restarting the server every time it gets too cluttered. We have to fight for longevity and fight for something that’s ours for all time. There’s no reason we can’t keep this going indefinitely. The one thing acting against us is updates that make it harder to experience new things without traveling forever. If we can hold on to what we’ve got and make it work, we should. But, if it’s an exercise in futility we should accept that and move on, lest we loose more time. Unless Miecraft version 2 has some insane surprise in it, 1.5 should be the end of big game content updates.

    Here’s what I propose:
    We keep the current SoA and move spawn to a new, but still central region.

    We eliminate the current Nether. Certainly some brave souls have built things there, but it’s a small price to pay for the renewal of the greater whole.
    This would allow access to quartz. Similarly, we place a limit on an estimation of the current size of the server, making sure that nether travel won’t make the SoA any more beastly and eliminating current problems.

    We restrict creeper damage, we add residence features, we purge warps and start a new methodology of using them, and we build above-ground rail systems using the new spawn as a central hub.

    Moving forward, we all keep server limits and beautification in mind making an amazing place where everyone can adventure and build together in perpetuity.

    Thoughts?

    ps- bukkit will be back up shortly and Trades reactivated.

    #30043

    Flawedspirit
    Participant

    Wonderful to hear from you Cap, and Jon by proxy. I’m going to weigh in on the points that were made. Here I go.

    1. Yeah, maps are nice. I love maps to no end, but if it’s impossible to actually make one, well, then I can live with it. There’s always mapping the old fashioned way: a pencil and a LOT of paper.

    2. Yes, please disable creeper cratering on the surface. I am certainly welcome to them doing whatever they want below a certain Y level, but I totally want to preserve the aesthetics of the surface while still keeping creepers as a viable threat. This functionality is baked into Essentials, which our server already runs, so it won’t be hard to implement.

    3. I am in agreement for allowing Residence use for Lawmen/Architects/Shopkeeps if they so choose. I recommend people do their research though. Residence can be tricky to use if you’re not used to it. There’s a lot of experimenting to do before you nail the commands that give you exactly what you want.

    4. Restarting the server is of course not entirely necessary, and I am open to (and very welcoming) of just moving spawn, as a sort of new beginning.

    5. I love the warp idea, as it stands. Really dig the ancient temple of power thing.

    6. We are already hard at work on more rails.

    7. Yeah, I support just redoing the nether. No one really cares about the current one anyway, right?

    Despite what my username says, I am certifiably flawless.
    Please echo "all complaints and suggestions" > /dev/null.

    #30044

    Kaosubaloo
    Participant

    For @cap

    First, a question: My experience is that most minecraft servers reset every 3 to 6 months. It is, however, worth noting that most of my Non-SoA Server experience has been using Modpacks, which tend to have a much faster update pace.

    Server size: It might not be practical with the current server to innact a size limit, considering it’s already monumental girth, but I’m uncertain how uniform that girth is. On a new server and not an old one though, a useful solution would be to start with a modest size (5-10 KM from spawn) and then expand it by a KM every time a new terrain feature or major update or, hell, buildathon finishes up. This would keep the server a reasonable size while still allowing plenty of room for growth over time. Of course, as already said it is rather less applicable to the current server. If I had to pick a number for locking down this one it would be 20km. As far as I know the only major structure out further than that is Mech’s Super-Fort, which at this point is pretty much abandoned. Everyone should probably spot check one another on this one.

    Creepers not injuring builds: I’m pretty sure essentials can make it so that creepers still spawn and explode and cause damage, but simply don’t cause damage.

    Residence: By default, Residence has a pretty small number of chunks that 1 player can reserve. What this means is that, worst case, someone reserves 16 or so random chunks that you can’t build in. What it also means is that it’s not the sort of thing that is designed to protect large buildsites or structures. As I stated earlier, it’s best use is really to set up towns where lots of people all have homes in the same area.

    Spawn: I third the Obsidian Mountain plan. The main flaw of the current spawn, I think, is that there is only 1 main exit. And as a result all the clutter is, well, cluttered into New Spawnville. If we had a structure of similar size to the current spawn, but with, say, 1 major road leaving it in each of the cardinal directions? I think that would allow for all the usual crowding, but in such a way that it wasn’t an obstacle for new users.

    Warps: That is almost exactly what I had in mind. Existing points that are good to keep and come to mind would be a warp for oldspawn (Currently /warp spawn) and a warp for new spawn (when spawn is moved again). Another good location might be Bone-desert (which is somewhat close to old spawn, but in the right direction and also already has an alter). After most of the warps have been stripped down, we *may* want to experiment with assigning 1 (and only 1) warp to certain users for special locations, but even that sort of thing can wait until post-cleanup.

    Quartz: Reseting the nether sounds like a good plan to me.

    OPs: A big, big part of the problem here is when the Trades are down. They’re great when they’re up, but there’s downtime with every update, and those downtimes are HUGE griefer magnets. Beyond that though, there’s any number of small utility actions that an OP can do but, using myself as an example, a Lawman/Architect can not. Just off the top of my head there’s…
    – Changing Day/Night Cycle
    – Unbanning people
    – Spawning Non-Creative-Mode Blocks (Command Blocks, Monster Spawners, Mushroom blocks…)
    – World Edit (which I realize you want to keep under lock and key, but it’s there)

    The 8 user thing: I had been under the impression that this was a temporary measure while waiting for the new broken server to be repaired under warranty. Go figure.

    Guess who, it's Kaosubaloo!

    #30046

    lingarn
    Participant

    Thanks for such a thorough response. It helps to get a sense of what the planning for the server is.

    I really like the idea of building the server indefinitely. The notion that what we build may last forever (at least in internet terms) is a neat one. It will also allow us to watch the server evolve, and provide plenty of back-building for new people to explore.

    Overall, I support the proposal that you’ve laid out. Remaking nether gates shouldn’t be too hard, and will allow greater central planning.

    I didn’t realize the residence thing was so limited, but I still think it is a good idea. Restricting it to advanced trade classes is an even better idea; if you can share permissions, this would allow someone to effectively be a mayor and permit lower trade (or new) people to build houses and such. Helps with organization, and centralizes the permission system for an area.

    With a man-made bedrock mountain, you could in principle hollow out the inside and have a crazy rail system that could take you almost anywhere. I like this idea too.

    Regarding the Ops — the biggest worry I’ve heard from people is when bukkit is down and the griefers come out. Without lawman powers, the best we can do is either kill the griefer (mob justice is tricky, though) or if someone with creative is around, encase them in bedrock. It is, honestly, a fairly limited set of circumstances. The other stuff kaos mentioned is also true, but I think that the big one is banning griefers when the trades are down. In principle this could be solved by having the existing Ops hang out more during those times.

    These are exciting times! I look forward to watching the server develop.

    #30047

    Trent
    Participant

    Slight update RE: transportation;

    With many thanks to Koasubaloo for helping with the dip into the ocean floor that was somewhat necessary to go through (rather than around) Kaopolis, the end of the solar system rail now has a station above it that will take riders to the x=0 line!

    #30051

    Jon
    Keymaster

    OK, we are now using a dev build of Bukkit, I discovered the 8 player max problem (has to do with the mcmyadmin license and hashing being computer specific, so that’s fixed, Also creepers can explode and hurt you anywhere, BUT they won’t damage blocks. Might I also propose that the FOA be brought into the discussion, it is rather… empty, at the moment. What do?

    Head of Science and Technology for Nerdy Show.

    #30065

    Kaosubaloo
    Participant

    Here is my take on Waypoints after a survey of all the current points. This is only a first-pass list, and therefore it is both likely that there are points not on it that should be reconsidered and there are almost certainly points on the list that could be removed. Of particular note is that the Coordinates of each point relative to one another should be taken into account. I tried to do so for some of these, but was rather inconsistent about it.

    Legend:
    =========
    + A current Waypoint that we should keep
    – A current waypoint that is at a good location but should be moved and/or rebuild

    Waypoints
    =========
    + AquaUmbra (This is apparently the Current Spawn. Go figure.)
    + Arena
    + Bonedesert
    – Brandon (Needs a proper alter and a rename)
    – Dead (Needs to move and a rename)
    – EndermanFarm (Having 1 warp in the End is a good idea but it needs the works)
    + FlawedSpirit (Needs a rename but otherwise good)
    – GoldenSaucer (Good location but needs to be moved out of the Saucer; maybe into to the mainland?)
    + Jungle
    – Kikallipolis (Needs to be moved to a proper alter)
    — LunarOutpost (This is a good location, but it is also over 8km from 0/0, so I’m unsure if we want to keep it. In any case it would need a proper Alter.)
    – Mountown (Needs an alter)
    – PortAndrosol (Needs an alter)
    + Raelon
    — superjail (We should replace jail with this. Also: It should really be lawman only or not at all.)
    – Trench (Should be renamed and moved out of the Castle. This one is close enough to the GoldSaucer that I don’t think both warps are necessary. Not sure which is a better choice.)
    — ViralDemon (Good location but something 16(!)km away from 0/0 in both cardinal directions. If we’re okay with the distance we should keep it. In either case needs a rename and maybe an alter.)
    – yugo (Needs a rename and to a proper alter)

    ~18/53

    Guess who, it's Kaosubaloo!

    #30066

    Garayur
    Participant

    I approve of the nether reset. Its quite a mess over there right now, and it doesn’t really hurt very much as compared to the main world.

    Residence would be useful for the occasional fragile project. I for one love those sand structures suspended by torches, but they are pointless in multiplayer as they are the ultimate griefer bait. Residence, for specific classes, would allow some of the more fragile constructions to be made.

    I like the idea of a new spawn with more avenues to spread along. I am fond of the chaotic mess that arises in our spawn cities but multiple avenues would give us a broader area to spread out from and easier travel through them.

    Yes please to the warps. Any chance we get a pressure plate on the warp location which triggers the mario brothers warp whistle song? :p

    Steam: Garayur
    garayur.tumblr.com
    garayurcosplay.tumblr.com

    #30071

    Cap
    Keymaster

    Good point about OPs, guys. We’ll figure something out where folks can feel more protected during bukkit downtime. (Hopefully Bukkit integration into basic Minecraft won’t be too far away. It’s been discussed for ages now). As far as changing the day/night cycle, spawning non-Architect blocks, and world edit those things are non-critical and specialized enough I think doing that stuff via approval and appointment is the best way to go.

    @kaosubaloo Dude, thanks for the warp list. That’s a huge help.

    @jon Maybe we could make new spawn not in a freshly isolated area? We could slap it back at original spawn (orienting the world back to zero) and transplant an updated version of the original shrine on top of the mountain. That’d put proximity next to the FoA and maybe reinspire interest in it.

    Group thoughts on that? I know it would effect some builds.

    #30073

    Garayur
    Participant

    If it was moved to or near old spawn, a lot of cleaning needs to be done. That region is riddled with creeper pock marks as well as abandoned and griefed construction. half the ground is hollow from poorly filled creeper holes.

    Steam: Garayur
    garayur.tumblr.com
    garayurcosplay.tumblr.com

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